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Auto geelachtig door Poorboys World Natty's Paste Wax Red?

Remko.me

Detailing rookie
1 nov 2010
192
0
:-"

Gisteren de auto volledig gedaan, en ook wax dus erop. Ik heb PB White Diamond Glaze erop en Poorboys World Natty's Paste Wax Red, gewoon omdat ik die nog had liggen en ik heb altijd prettig vond op mijn vorige blauw auto.

Nu is het zo dat ik vanmorgen naar de auto keek, en het opviel dat mijn auto veel geler aandoet dan dat hij met Dodo Juice White Diamond HW was, (wat ik voorheen er op had).

Kan dit? Of verbeeld ik het me gewoon?

Heb even snel een foto gemaakt, de auto was voorheen echt spierwit, nu een geelachtige kleur, niet erg best mooi.... maar gewoon.... ben benieuwd of dit echt zo is.


[MOD]Foto niet meer beschikbaar[/MOD]
 
Ik denk dat je het verbeeld.

Als ik de foto open in Photoshop, en de kleurbalans recht trek (kan op verschillende manieren met bijv curves.), dan zie je in de voor- en na foto dat er een lichte kleurzweem (neigt naar rood en geel) over de foto hangt. Dit zie je ook bijvoorbeeld bij de witte kozijnen in je foto (die ook gelig zijn).

Komt waarschijnlijk door de warme ochtendzon, die een gelige gloed heeft.
 
Tsja, misschien is het ook wel zo in het echt en is het met een foto lastig op te vangen.

Ik kan me nog herinneren dat Tinus ooit schreef dat hij een gelige kleurzweem over een witte auto kreeg. Dat was na Collinite 845.

Ik heb gehoord dat er 2 types Carnauba zijn (wit en geel), waarbij wit de duurdere is en volgens de theorie voor een iets andere 'glans' zorgt. Misschien dat het iets ermee te maken kan hebben, maar tot zover heb ik altijd alleen maar een theorie erover gelezen en nooit in de praktijk verschillen gezien of over gelezen (behalve dan bij Tinus).
 
Ben ik toch benieuwd met wat voor camera en instellingen je 'm hebt gefotografeerd
Ben een newbee op dat gebied, dus in de fotodata kijken moet ik nog uitvinden ;)
 
heel toevallig dit

gistren ook een witte auto in de wax gezet

vanmorgen kom ik buiten leek hij ook geel creme achtig

zal idd kome door de zon 8-)

als ik de auto binnen zet(TL verlichting) is er niks aan de hand :-)^

greets
 
De gele glans lijkt voor mij alleen de zichtbare helft van de auto te beslaan. De andere helft van de motorkap lijkt niet zo geel te zijn.

Volgens mij zie ik in de zwarte auto erachter een gele glans. Zou het kunnen dat er iets is aan de overkant van de straat is wat geelachtig kan reflecteren? Op het muurtje in het gangetje zie ik dat de zon vrij laag staat. Ook een laagstaande zon kan een geelachtig effect geven.
 
Als ik de foto zie lijkt er een kleurzweem in je foto te zitten kijk maar in je grijstinten hier is het het beste te herkennen magenta met een beetje yellow:-"
En de standaard instellingen doe er niet toe gebruik je witbalans bij de opname is niet goed gebruik een Expodisc
En 90% van je probleem is opgelost.
 
Het lijkt mij toch niet van belang of er een kleurzweem in de foto zit, de TS heeft het toch zelf geconstateerd. Dus hoe of met wat de foto is gemaakt is toch niet van belang hier. Of ik snap het niet. :weetniet
 
Als je het echt zeker wil weten : 50:50 maken ?

Motorkap even clayen, licht polijsten en dan links de natty's en rechts de Dodo.
Heb je gelijk een mooie test ;)
 
+1 voor juffer.

maar dat witte en gele carnauba verhaal wil ik ook wel uitgelegt hebben eigenlijk :-"
klinkt erg aannemelijk namelijk! ,^^
 
Dodo Juice heeft een tijdje geleden een test gedaan op een witte motorkap.

There has always been a degree of speculation, rumour and assumption regarding colouring in waxes. Is it a cynical marketing ploy to make gulible consumers buy multiple pots of wax unnecessarily? Does it have any effect at all? Why would a true detailer even consider a wax with colour in?

All good questions, that will be answered below.

But let's start at the beginning, when we launched in 2007 as a new manufacturer of hand made car care products.

We went from a kitchen stove to a workable recipe in about 6 months and tried to decide on whether our new wax should have a colour and smell, and if so, what should it be? It didn't take long to realise that:

1) there were lots of wax ingredients out there (some light ingredients like coconut oil and white beeswax, some warm like orange oil and yellow beeswax, and some dark like montan wax and dark beeswax) and that recipes could be slightly altered to give mildly different characteristics (like texture).

2) everyone we canvassed wanted something different; some people liked some smells, some people hated others

and 3) we could make hard waxes, that went on thin and cured quickly (not to mention that had jars that never seemed to go down) or soft waxes, that were more pleasing to spread by palms or fingertips onto paint.

So we decided, out of sheer variety and choice, to make one hard and one soft wax, and then play around with the ingredients (inc fragrances and colours) for the rest of the range. Fun, variety, choice... this was the thought. Not 'oh, we can bring out a wax for every pantone colour and sell a 146 jar set to gullible motorists'.

To give the light, warm and dark recipes a more attractive appearance, we added coloured oils and dyes. We didn't think that these would alter the colour of a car dramatically, or even at all, but a choice of light brown to dark brown waxes were the alternative. We went for the colours, and suggested, because these waxes were light/warm/dark that they would suit those hues.

Of course, you can use any colour wax on any colour car.

You can use a dark wax on a light car so you can see where it has gone.

And you can use a wax without any colour in whatsoever, for absolute purity, which is why we made Supernatural. (Although you could always use Diamond White or Light Fantastic).

The 'general' waxes, Rainforest Rub and Hard Candy were mid-tone and cheaper than the rest. We were happy for these to sell the best and for only the adventurous to buy 'colour charged' waxes.

At no point was there any marketing or 'hype' beyond, for example, putting the Dodo wax made 'for dark coloured cars' on Purple Haze and Blue Velvet, on labels and on the website. It had after all, been made by us, specifically for dark coloured cars... but maybe we needed a big asterisk saying 'but you can use it on any colour and it won't matter that much'. :thumb:

Fast forward a few years and we are bigger and better known, and there's a detailing 'expert' on every forum. Newbies worry about coloured waxes unduly and the village elders like to pronounce that colour makes little or no difference. Well, it makes very little difference (assuming you don't want to apply a dark wax on a light car for ease of application) because waxes all tend to do a similar job and they all buff down to a sub-micron level. If you cover your whole car in a layer of coloured wax, you'd have to have bionic eyes to see the difference compared to a colour-free wax. To the naked eye and casual onlooker it makes 'no difference' in practice, no matter what is actually physically going on with the paint. There is a technical difference, but not a practical one...

A while back, I posted a colour charging demonstration up on our forum. We knew coloured waxes made little real world difference, but were the cynics right when they said it made 'absolutely no difference at all'? We found them to be wrong. The darkening effect of purple haze, multi layered, on a red panel showed a dark area where the wax had been. http://forum.dodojuice.com//viewtopic.php?t=653 The result was seen again when I applied Purple Haze Pro in two layers to the side of our white van. It was dusk and I was at AndyC's. He saw the effect for himself... we were doing a 50/50 test and you could see a slight darkening where the wax had been after buffing.

We didn't care much about the tests because the wax range was for variety and fun, and they all worked well. People had their favourites, but it isn't a big thing for us - or wasn't until we came under fire for 'cynical' marketing practices and 'hype', all based on an assumption that because people were wanting dark waxes for dark cars we must have misled them by merely making them available. We hadn't deliberately misled people, but people did sell the idea to themselves. And we still spend our time on PMs, emails and at shows playing down the colourings.

But a few recent posts have been enough for us to conduct a much more serious test to see what really happens when you layer our coloured waxes. Where the cynics right? Does it make 'absolutely no difference'? Or have they been blinded by their own cynicsm? Does it make some difference, even if quite small? Could a car colour be enhanced or subtly changed just with coloured car wax? The decision was made to find out.

I therefore prepared the white bonnet of our van and divided it into 30 panels. We would apply ever increasing layers of Blue Velvet, Blue Velvet Pro, Purple Haze, Purple Haze Pro and Orange Crush (we ran out of bonnet otherwise I'd have done more) over a couple of days and see the results.

The waxes were all finger applied and at least an hour was left between buffing/layers. The long cure would not be possible on a black bonnet on a hot day, but it was applied in average temps in our unit on a white panel, so there were no problems. An hour ensured all waxes had cured (the Pro waxes may take longer).

Here they are after fresh application (unbuffed):
DSC_0406.webp


Don't get too excited, they buffed down to this:
DSC_0408.webp


So I decided to do up to six layers of each wax. We only recommend two layers for coverage, and it has been shown in some tests that wax 'won't layer' beyond two layers, so if no more wax is being laid down, the colour should stay the same after the second layer. Testing this theory was a useful secondary benefit of the test.

Here it is with another layer of wax on the multiple layer panels:

DSC_0410.webp


And here it is after all layers, from one layer to the left, to six layers on the right, have been applied and buffed:

DSC_0415.webp


Not exactly a respray by any means, but the wax colours are subtly visible. Orange Crush and Purple Haze Pro appeared the most visible at this point:

DSC_0416.webp


Now, I should point out here that NO FANCY CAMERAWORK OR PHOTO MANIPULATION are taking place. I have uploaded original and unedited pics to photobucket and I'm happy to send an original to anyone who wants to verify this. The camera is a D40 on whatever setting it chooses, and the only change was leaving the flash off because it 'blinded' the shot. Natural daylight from the skylight was used. I am not clever enough or patient enough to play around with cameras to create effects I want to convey, but I have edited a pic at the end in Picasa AND SHOWN THE LEVELS so you can see the effect more clearly and saw what I adjusted over the original pic.

OK, unmanipulated pic with the tape off (the strong blue tape made Blue Velvet seem very feint).

DSC_0422-1.webp


And now, natural shots, panel by panel, layer by layer:

Blue Velvet 1 layer, 2 layers, 3 layers - too blurred, photo not uploaded (I got better with the rest of them... the camera wasn't focusing well so I had to use manual not auto focus on these close ups)

Blue Velvet 4 layers, 5 layers, 6 layers
DSC_0424.webp


Blue Velvet Pro 1 layer, 2 layers, 3 layers
DSC_0425.webp


Blue Velvet Pro 4 layers, 5 layers, 6 layers - notice how the residue has built up by the tape with these thicker layers
DSC_0426.webp


Purple Haze 1 layer, 2 layers, 3 layers
DSC_0427.webp


Purple Haze 4 layers, 5 layers, 6 layers
DSC_0428.webp


Purple Haze Pro 1 layer, 2 layers, 3 layers
DSC_0430.webp


Purple Haze Pro 4 layers, 5 layers, 6 layers
DSC_0431.webp


Orange Crush 1 layer, 2 layers, 3 layers
DSC_0432.webp


Orange Crush 4 layers, 5 layers, 6 layers
DSC_0433.webp


And now the money shot, which HAS BEEN EDITED to increase the contrast so any changes to the colour of the paint by the wax can clearly be seen:
image001.webp


CONCLUSIONS

1. It is clear that coloured waxes of a certain type CAN and DO affect the colour of a paint. Whether this is largely due to the coloured oils/dyes or other ingredients is unknown, but I would guess it is mostly the oils.

2. It is obviously a subtle effect. Purple Haze Pro and Orange Crush seemed particularly strong in my tests. Whether you see it on darker coloured paint than white would be debatable, but the oils are there. You cannot physically magic them away by cynically thinking they do 'absolutely nothing'. The absolutely do something but it is something subtle and unnoticed on most occasions. You need a test like this to make it obvious!

3. The fourth layer seemed to have the strongest coloration. This would suggest that you can layer these waxes four times before you start taking old wax off with the fresh layer, or buffing it down to a 'maximum' level. However, it may be that the oils are simply being absorbed by the old wax layers underneath and thus getting darker each time (with the wax remaining at an even level), although the colour shouldn't fall back on subsequent layers if this was the case. Although highly subjective, it would be enough for me to question the 'two layers is maximum' theory. It may vary from product to product, and in these tests, four layers seemed to be optimum. We would still recommend at least two for coverage, and no more because it would be largely unnecessary for the effect or result that needs to be attained. But don't scoff if people layer waxes more than twice. I won't after seeing the panel here.

4. We aren't going to be bringing out a whole rainbow of coloured waxes for every coloured car, although colour and fragrance feature prominently in our range and always will. But let the cynics be assured, those who think layering a coloured residue on a car has absolutely 'no effect whatsoever' are incorrect in their assumption. It does have an effect, although it is a slight and possible unnoticeable one in real terms. If they need to, they can pop over to Bishops Stortford and see the bonnet. Indeed, Nathan from Cambridge Autogleam happened to be passing and saw the subtle results for himself. This test will be readily replicated on a white car with the waxes used, given reasonable prep and application/curing.

5. You can still use any colour wax on any colour car. A white car will not turn deep blue with a layer or two of Blue Velvet on it. But if you want your white car to stay purest white, don't put four coats of Orange Crush on it.

6. Always judge a wax on what it does FOR YOU. If you like it, or can 'see something' then happy days. If you have layered it 25 times and don't notice any difference, then please don't buy it again. Flake pop, hue, reflections... all may be altered by every product, coloured or not, added to the car. Even a shampoo with an unwitting amount of silicone in could darken paint. But don't believe all you read on the forums, or assumptions made by 'experts'. Get out there and test it yourself.

7. Coloured waxes don't last forever on your car. If your white car becomes orange because you overdid it with our new David Dickinson Fake Tan Wax, then it comes off with IPA and wears off over time.

So there you have it. Colour charged waxes - fake tan for cars. :thumb:

Although it's a very subtle effect, and always will be.

If you want to change the colour, get it resprayed.

If you want to try a dark wax on a dark car, or a warm wax on a warm car and don't expect too much (because any effect is SUBTLE) then be our guest. Panel pots do 3-4 layers on a whole car of average proportions and cost 5.95 GBP, so it doesn't cost a lot if you're curious.

And if you're not curious, or think it's all a bit too gimmicky, there's Supernatural, Supernatural Hybrid, Light Fantastic, Diamond White... all without any colour in at all.

A little update:

At the end of month three, I checked the test panels again by washing the van with a pH neutral shampoo (it was not clayed and no harsh chemicals were used... conversely no silicone/sealant residue products were added to the surface via wash, quick detailer, spray sealant etc). These panels were on our works 'Blingo' van, which was used for a number of events in those three months. It saw blinding sun and driving rain. However, it didn't rack up much more than 1000-1500 miles and it is generally kept garaged, so there is no pretence this is a daily driver kept outside 24/7.

As you can see, the colour of the 'charged' panels has diminished significantly, with the residue lines being prominent only.

DSC_0008.webp


DSC_0013.webp


Whilst the coloured panels do have a very slightly coloured hue to them - most noticeably Orange Crush - you'd have to know the colour was there to spot it. They are visible to the naked eye, just. But after 3 months it can be seen that the dye has faded significantly.

We originally put 1-6 layers of wax on the car and the single layer wasn't really visible at all, but layers 2-6 were identifiable. 4-6 showed little difference between them, suggesting perhaps that the original conclusion that four layers was optimum, was correct.

There are two possibilities therefore:

1) That in three months the dye has faded and the wax protection remains intact to some degree;
or
2) That the wax and dye diminish together, and that the wax protection has diminished at a similar rate to the coloration.

To test the hypothesis, I made an assumption that the van was reasonably clean and free from contamination after the shampoo wash - claying would have removed more contamination embedded in the surface over the 3 months (and therefore have potentially improved beading) but this would also have interfered with the wax coatings to some degree. I therefore opted for a simple water beading test, as I knew areas under the original masking tape strips were unprotected, and I know what beading attributes our waxes have.

If the dye and wax have faded together, the beading should be the same or similar to the unwaxed strips... ie no wax protection.

If there is beading, wax is likely to be present - meaning the dye has been unstable and faded naturally (probably due to the action of UV light - our unit has a skylight so never gets dark in the bay during daylight hours, and can be quite light).

Here's what was seen:

DSC_0030-1.webp


DSC_0031-1.webp


The beading (shown between panels 3 and 4) is impressive and the clean but unprotected strip down the centre shows much poorer water behaviour.

Therefore, it looks like the dye has faded but the wax remains.

If using waxes for any coloured effect, however, subtle, it would be suggested that:
1) you do not expect the tint to last as long as the wax itself
2) you relayer after 1-2 months rather than 3 months or longer
3) you apply more than 2-3 layers initially

It also shows that the dye and wax behave independently, despite being part of the same layer. Like a coloured candle may fade but still retain its shape or characteristics, so it seems coloured car wax may fade on a panel, yet the wax itself outlasts its hue.

Finally, we removed layers 1-3 totally and played around with waxes we didn't test initially, such as Banana Armour, Hard Candy and Rainforest Rub. Banana Armour was similar to Orange Crush and almost as noticeable after four layers as a control panel of Orange Crush we reapplied. But Hard Candy and Rainforest Rub were surprising. Hard Candy was optically much clearer and didn't tint as much as we expected, and Rainforest Rub tinted far more than we imagined. It really left the paint with a limey/light green hue after four layers.

DSC_0019.webp
 
@nicknameless,

Bedankt voor het posten van de test! zocht hem al.

maar die test gaat voornamelijk over de kleur componenten die (met opzet) in de dodo waxxen zijn gedaan.

Dit verklaard dus waarom de auto van TS zo mooi wit is bij de dodo wax. hier zitten witte kleurstof in.

het voorval wat TS opmerkt is een andere kleur dan de kleur wax (TS ziet geel, en de wax is rood)

als er dan ook nog is speculaties bijkomen over de kleur van gebruikte grondstoffen.
dan ben ik daar erg benieuwd naar :)
 
Bartezzz zei:
maar dat witte en gele carnauba verhaal wil ik ook wel uitgelegt hebben eigenlijk :-"
klinkt erg aannemelijk namelijk! ,^^
Normale carnauba was is geel, maar niet dat je zegt fel-geel. Het maakt de wax, zoals je die in de pot ziet, gelig. Tenzij er kleurstof bij gedaan is, dan is het effect al gauw niet meer te zien, want het is geen sterke kleur.

In de dunne waxlaag die na het afnemen op je auto achterblijft, is er van het geel van de carnauba echter totaal niets meer te zien.

De keuze voor witte of gele carnauba door fabrikanten heeft, naar mijn idee, vooral te maken met de kleur van de wax zoals je die in de pot ziet. Een witte wax kun je het best maken met gebleekte carnauba. Maar als er kleurstof in de wax zit, of hij is bruinig of gelig, dan kan de fabrikant meestal best gewone ongebleekte carnauba gebruiken. Tenzij om marketing-redenen witte carnauba geadverteerd wordt, bijvoorbeeld om een illusie van puurheid o.i.d. te wekken.

Wat betreft het prijsverschil, bij een bepaalde leverancier kost op dit moment de meest witte carnauba 7,80 Pond Sterling per halve kilo, en normale gele carnauba 6,09 Pond. Gezien er in een pot van 200g wax hoogstens 60g carnauba zit, zijn dit geen prijsverschillen die echt veel uitmaken (misschien een paar dubbeltjes).
 
Er wordt geen witte kleurstof gebruikt in niet gekleurde wassen en vooral al niet in die van DDJ;

And if you're not curious, or think it's all a bit too gimmicky, there's Supernatural, Supernatural Hybrid, Light Fantastic, Diamond White... all without any colour in at all.

Verder wordt er niet echt een witte Carnauba gebruikt in autowassen, dit betreft voornamelijk de voedingsmiddelenindustrie.

Witte carnauba bestaat van natura niet.

In a word, no. Carnauba is browny-yellow in its natural state and all our products use the best light yellow T1 grade. White carnauba refers to either micronised (finely powdered) yellow carnauba (this reflects light better so appears white), heavily refined yellow carnauba or bleached yellow carnauba. The techniques used to whiten carnauba are largely for the benefit of the food and drug industries, where carnauba's natural colour would be unappealing. We have seen no performance benefit, or independent evidence of a performance benefit, when it comes to its use within car wax. Sure, we sometimes use micronised 'white' carnauba ourselves. But we don't bang on about it.

http://www.dodojuice.com/dodo-juice-faq-carnauba-n-the-basics.html

Wat betreft de gelige kleur van je auto;
Ik vermoed zelf dat dit gewoon een gevolg is van de kleurstoffen in de Natty's.

Zoals al opgemerkt; ontdoe eens een deel van de wagen van de was en zet dat deel in een ongkleurde was, dan weet je het zeker.
 
Smeer Blue Velvet maar eens op lichte wagen, precies hetzelfde effect. Uiteraad niet geel maar een donkere waas creeër je dan. Komt door de kleurstoffen zoals hierboven al staat beschreven.
 
Omdat de laag daar te dun voor is, je krijgt slechts een tint.
De kleur (wit in dit geval) wordt gewoon een tint donkerder en het zou kunnen dat hij door de glaze (en de oliën die erin zitten) een gelig effect geeft.
Affijn, het is alleen maar uit te sluiten door één panel opnieuw te doen met een niet gekleurde was.
 
Nog keer overdag kijken als het weer is opgeklaard, foto maken ( liefste zelfde plek en hoek van fotograferen ), zelfde camerainstelligen als voorheen dan kan je dit ook al uitsluiten.
Ik vraag me af of het idd zo is of dat het idd door het zonnetje is gekomen ( zoals eerder aangegeven ) of door de wax.
Als nu alles weer normaal is dan kan je de wax gewoon weer gebruiken.
Gedeelte cleanen en dan andere wax ( of wellicht even geen om een soort van 50/50 te maken ) is de volgende stap